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In this inspiring episode of ProductiviTree, Santiago Tacoronte sits down with Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson, a renowned expert in leadership and productivity, to explore the concept of «fireproof productivity.» Together, they delve into what it takes to remain composed, effective, and thriving amidst life’s storms, offering tools to prevent burnout and cultivate resilience.
Dr. Bre shares personal stories, including a harrowing time when her family faced immense chaos, demonstrating the power of prioritization, faith, and taking one step at a time. She also breaks down the differences between leadership and management, the dangers of the «Superwoman Syndrome,» and why busyness is not the same as productivity.
This episode is a guide to reclaiming your time, harnessing a growth mindset, and standing firm in your authenticity—whether you’re leading a team, navigating personal challenges, or striving to bring balance to your life.
Tune in to discover:
Ready to thrive under pressure? Listen now!
Transcript
Santiago Tacoronte (00:01.452)
Welcome Dr. Bre to the ProductivyTree Podcast.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (00:05.464)
Thank you so much. Good morning.
Santiago Tacoronte (00:07.968)
money to you. So you are an expert in productivity, lots of content around, very useful content. How would you define fireproof productivity and how is it different from resilience?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (00:23.874)
That’s a very good question. I don’t think they’re different. They’re incorporated.
Fireproof productivity is literally a posture, if you will. It’s the capacity to deal with whatever crisis, difficulty, or issue that’s going on at the time through certain character traits that, quite frankly, you have to manifest and become familiar with. Resilience is number one. You have to be able to be resilient in order to get to that place of fireproof productivity. And a lot of people think resilience
is just the capacity to bounce back. It’s so much more than that. To be resilient, you have to first have an inner capacity to face issues, get through them, and be determined that whatever’s facing you will not stop you. Then you have the strength to bounce back. So when you’re in that place, it takes you to a place of peace, knowing that, and for me, that’s God. God gives me the strength, the capacity, the fortitude,
to realize that whatever is in front of me is temporary. It’s an issue. It doesn’t have to consume me. It doesn’t have to take me out. I can get through it. It might be hard. It might be devastating. I’ve gone through some of these times. But if you do it with that capacity, that inner will, that inner resolve not to quit, to lean on God and make it through, that gets you to a place of realizing whatever this, T-H-I-S, is, whatever this is, I can’t
I can deal with it and I can get through it. The problem with that level of productivity for most people, they look at the problem and the problem becomes bigger than their inner strength and resolve. Then they freak out. What happens when you freak out? You’re already defeated. That thing is already going to take you out. But if you understand this is just temporary, it’s not permanent. Let me lean on God.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (02:30.453)
pray my way through this let me understand that I am stronger than I ever imagined these are promises in God’s Word I can get through this that place now you have a posture where you can be fireproof in productivity and whatever it is you need to accomplish
Santiago Tacoronte (02:48.888)
Can you share a story where you or someone you know faced chaos and someone or you were overwhelmed and still managed to stay productive? This is something very common these days, Dr. Brier. People, as you will say, get overwhelmed with work, family, anything. Can you share your stories?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (03:03.262)
Absolutely.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (03:12.685)
Absolutely. The one that comes to mind most, most, uh, prevalently is he’s a, he’s an adult right now, but when my son was, um, 11 years old, he’s my middle child. I got to know he’s the middle child. He was hit by a car. Now this is a time when my ex-husband and I were, had just decided we were going to get divorced. So there was tension there. I was unemployed. So I was in the midst of trying to find a job.
A couple of days before he was hit by this car, I was offered an opportunity for a temporary job that was going to lead to something permanent. Happy, everything’s going well, can deal with the divorce. He was almost killed. In fact, they tell us that he died three times going to the hospital. So I’m faced with, I’ve got this opportunity for work, finances were critical, but my son is almost dying.
I could not start that job. And this is where sometimes people get overwhelmed. They get these things in their mind. like, I gotta do this. gotta, no, you need to stop and make a decision on what’s most important.
So knowing that I would probably lose the job, I was bold. That’s another thing that it takes to be fireproof productive. I called the temp agency. said, look, my son was just hit by a car. Explain the situation. I said, can you please in any way, can you call the company? It was a huge mega company so they could easily get another person. Can you ask them if there’s any way I can start later? I just need to find out what’s going on and I need to get my head around the fact that my son is in critical condition.
They called the company and the company actually called me and Offered a temporary stay. They said we’ll hold it for a few days. Just let us know They held it for two weeks During that time it was chaos. Just seeing my son through this
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (05:07.751)
After they, two weeks after I started, my son was in such bad condition that he had a TBI, traumatic brain injury. He had to be taken to another state so he’d go through rehab. had to learn to talk, walk, everything over again. So my ex-husband, I had to make another decision. Do I go or does he go?
He’d been on his job longer and was permanent, so he took a leave of absence. So I’m learning this new job, very complex situation, while daily checking in with my ex-husband, praying for my son not to die. That was a time where I could have freaked out.
But in those times, that time taught me everything that I practice now with my clients. Don’t let the situation take you to that place of being overwhelmed. Once you get overwhelmed, you’re going to go through a series of emotional traumas and dramas that’s going to make it very difficult for you to subsist, exist, and move forward. I got up every morning. I prayed. Every time something came up, I prayed.
I got in my place of peace when I started to feel overwhelmed and there were many times I did. Okay, what do I need to do in this moment? Don’t look at the elephant. What one bite can I take at this moment?
And we were able, we as a family were able to get through this. I proved that I was worth them holding that job for. And my son right now, he couldn’t walk, couldn’t talk. He is still has some issues, but he is strong. He is vibrant and he is alive.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (06:55.532)
When you go through those moments when you are pulled every which way but loose as they say just real one step at a time Don’t look at everything that’s going on at that time one step And always ask yourself. What can I do in this moment? What decision can I make at this time? To hit to because sometimes those steps are like laying on your feet What can I do to take one step?
So I don’t feel defeated. And that’s how I got through that season. And there have been many others, but that lesson taught me how to get through those many other times. One step at a time, one prayer at a time, stay in that place of peace. What can you do in this moment to get to the next step?
Santiago Tacoronte (07:44.44)
That’s beautiful, doctor. Let’s speak a little bit about leadership, right? You definitely are very calm and wise leader. But how do you ensure that your teams, people that is reporting to you or working for you or with you, remains as calm and as productive as you are when things are
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (07:45.965)
God bless.
Santiago Tacoronte (08:12.48)
you know, changing around everyone.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (08:17.353)
And change is that one thing that’s constant. Most people don’t like it, but I don’t care what happens. If you don’t deal with anything else, you’re going to deal with change, especially in any kind of leadership position. And this is where this leadership in your workplace, your community, your church, and even your home. The one thing I try to do before I do anything else, when a crisis comes, when something unexpected comes, I’ve learned to always have a game plan. And if you do the research,
only 49 % of organizations, we’re talking workplace and community-structured organizations, only 49 % of organizations actually have a crisis plan. That’s why so many businesses went out of business during the pandemic. They didn’t know how to pivot. They didn’t know how to shift.
The pandemic should have taught everyone who considers themselves a leader. Let me have a backup plan. Let me have a game plan. So I always have a game plan. And even if I don’t codify it and explain it to my team, I’ve always got a plan. So when a crisis hit, like everything, before I do anything, I say, what am I supposed to do here? This is what it looks like. And I write down.
Her back to say, write it plain upon the tables so that he who sees it can run with it. When you write things down, something happens in your subconscious. It’s like you can see more clearly. So I write down, what’s going on now? What can we do? What are our options? And I just go through them. Then I get with my team, but I meet my team where each of them are.
Not everybody is in the same place. Not everybody even wants to deal calmly with the crisis. Some people enjoy, I call them DVDs, difficult by design folk. Some people enjoy being DVDs. So look at your team. Meet each of them where they are. Those who already have their sense of calm, their sense of peace, then you give them certain tasks that’s needed to get through that thing. Those who are freaking out, you got to calm them down before you give them anything.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (10:26.415)
who are just negative by nature, you got to deal with them. And sometimes dealing with them would be, OK, you need to calm down and you need to be quiet right now because they will help everybody else freak out. identify your team’s capacity to deal with that crisis and deal with them where they are. What I find, I’ve been in HR for 33 years. What I find with a lot of leaders, unfortunately, a lot of people aren’t leaders, they’re just managers. But they try to deal with everybody the same way.
That’s the number one mistake any leader can make. You have to look at each of your team members and identify their strengths, their weaknesses, their competencies, and their capacities. Because therein lies your ability to help your team get through a crisis or another difficult unexpected situation. Deal with them where they are. Help each of them help you as a leader get that team through that thing with the
still intact and again do not be afraid those negative those DVDs difficult by design folk you gotta tell them to be quiet tell them okay I understand you’re freaking out but I need that negativity that’s coming out of your mouth to stop I need you to get over here sit down and we’re gonna figure out what’s going on when I ask you to do something I need you to get it done
And then with others, you can be a little calmer. This is what we’re going to do. But with those who are right in that place of peace, I need you to move. I need you to get this done. Meet them where they are. Then you and your team can get through any crisis.
Santiago Tacoronte (12:04.6)
You just said something interesting. Leaders versus managers. What is the difference between them and how do you identify who’s a leader and who can enable productivity in teams and who is managing?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (12:22.281)
explained it like this. Leaders govern people. Managers govern processes and products. There are people who are very good at they know the policy, they know the procedures, they know the tactical strategies to make the vision or the mission happen. But the reality is I don’t care what organization you are in, where you are, you only can get productivity through people.
If you don’t know how to master the art, and it is an art and a science of progressing and processing through the people who work with you or for you, you are a manager, not a leader. You can be as smart as the day is long when it comes to how to get this done, how to make this happen, how to get that widget processed, how to get that document done so we can get it out to the public. If you don’t know how to do it through the people who are charged to get it done,
then you’re going to be left with a mess. Because when managers govern people the wrong way, it leads to negative mindset, negative posturing, disconnection, disengagement, and a team that is not cohesive. If you want to have a high performing team, you’ve got to tap into that leader and you’ve got to learn how to process with people through people and engage the people on the mission to help you make that mission happen.
happen. I find that there are lot of managers in leadership positions but there are not a lot of leaders who know how to get things done through the people they work with, work through and supervise.
Santiago Tacoronte (14:05.88)
Doctor, you help leaders break past subconscious limitation. How does our mindset either fuel or sabotage our productivity in chaotic situations? And can you give some tools to avoid, for people to avoid self-sabotaging?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (14:25.931)
Wow, that’s a real good question. In order to have a mindset, well first of all, everybody’s got a mindset. Most people will say, I don’t even deal with that stuff. But if you’re breathing, you have a mindset. The question is, is it a growth mindset or a fixed mindset? The growth mindset is that mindset that pushes productivity forward. The growth mindset says, know something, things don’t look good.
Things don’t look good at all. I’ve never dealt with this before. This has the potential to derail the whole plan process or whatever. But we can get through this.
We’re going to figure out a way to get through this. Our growth mindset sees the glass as half full. Our growth mindset said, yes, we got this very big issue in front of us, but let’s figure out how we can get through it. Growth mindset and leadership says, let’s talk about this. Let’s come up with a game plan.
fixed mindset says my goodness this is gonna hurt this is gonna kill us we can’t do this we can’t do this somebody’s the black who did this who did was the black a fixed mindset is always gonna find somebody to blame
It’s going to always limit the possibilities and the potential. And it’s always going to be more eye focused than we focused. I don’t know how we’re going to figure this out. Somebody did this. Somebody is blamed for this. A fixed mindset is always a mindset that’s going to kill before you all even begin the journey. That’s with personal goals, with professional goals, or with corporate or leadership goals. If a fixed mindset cannot see,
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (16:11.611)
The forest their fixed mindset only sees the density of the trees a Growth mindset even in the density of the trees. They see the beauty in each tree They see the possibility in every situation they see the capacities and the competencies of everyone on the team and a growth mindset knows how to tap into whatever that thing is that competency that Capacity that an individual has on the team how they can contribute
to the solution. So you have to manifest a growth mindset. Now this is where it gets difficult. Most people don’t know they have a fixed mindset.
Most people are who they are. They’ve been that way their whole lives. And people have given them permission to be, as I said, difficult by design because they make excuses. You know the people, that’s just the way they are. Somebody’s being mean. just don’t say much around them. You’ll be OK. That’s just the way they are. No, that’s not just the way they are. That’s the way they become. But something led to them becoming that way. So what was it?
And this is where most individuals never take the journey of getting to a place to say, why am I the way I am? Why do I always react negatively to people’s challenging me? Why do people doing well on my team make me jealous or envious? Why am I always so bitter-minded? Why do I see the negative in everything?
No, most people don’t take that journey. Research tells us the reason they don’t take that journey is they don’t want to deal with the real answer, which is I may need to change. That.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (17:59.422)
Is a bone a contention place of fear people don’t want to go there. That means they’ve got to face pain They may have to face difficulties They may have to come to grips with the fact that they need to do something different or maybe they are the problem That’s causing the issue to come to fore So what can you do? First of all, you got to look in the mirror. That’s the first tool What what is driving you? What is making you behave this way? What is making you act this way? and
99 % of the time I’ve been in HR for a while. I’m a minister of the gospel and I take all I take great Intensity in making sure I understand how the mind works
When you get asked that question, you gotta deal with what’s going on in your subconscious mind that’s driving you making bad decisions, having a bad attitude, and reacting to people in such a negative way. Most people can’t take that journey alone, and most people don’t like to ask for help.
We’ve got people dying in their pain. We’ve got people processing every day in a posture of defeat. I call them the walking wounded. What’s causing you to be there? What’s causing you to act this way, do these things? Until you can face and really ask that question openly and really look for answers, you’re going to be in that place of defeat. And that’s a bad place for a leader. The next thing is to understand you’re not on this journey alone.
Ask for help. I don’t know at what time we got to this place as a people and this is human the human condition that we think asking for help is a weakness. It is not. Asking for help can be the strongest position you ever take to get yourself in a place of being the best you, the most authentic you that you can be.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (19:56.486)
Once those two things are done, then you can expand and start to strengthen those inner skills. But until you get there, take off that mask, ask yourself these tough questions, ask for help if you need it. You will not be able to do those things like strengthen your resilience, do exercises to increase your communication skills, deal with your conflict resolution skills. You’ve got to deal with those interpersonal skills and strengthen them, but you all first got to deal with the inner you.
Santiago Tacoronte (20:27.906)
Do you think that all humans, all of us have the ability to open the chest of the subconscious? Or do you think there is some people that cannot go there or that, well, you just said that some of them don’t want to go there. I’m just wondering if we all have the ability.
to go through this journey look in the mirror and say like why am I really being so defensive why I really attacked this person when she or he gave me feedback how do you open this pandora’s box somehow
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (21:05.675)
That is so, it is a Pandora. It definitely is a Pandora’s box. think the first question, answer the first question is yes. I think we all have the competency and the capacity because the word tells us God makes it very clear we can do all things through Christ that strengthens us. The issue is where are you?
Santiago Tacoronte (21:08.5)
Hahaha
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (21:25.367)
Do you have, and again, I love it when science proves God’s word to be true. Science has proven that people who have a foundation of faith are happier. They have a better capacity to resolve conflict.
They are more at peace in difficult situations. And in essence, and of course, the science doesn’t call it fireproof productivity. They are better positioned to deal with crisis that leads to fireproof productivity posturing. So the question is, where are you on your journey of faith? If you don’t have that foundation of faith, then the difficult is going to scare you senseless.
You’re not going to believe that you can do all things. You’re not going to believe that you have the capacity to overcome any situation. Every issue that you face, you’re going to face that issue and you’re going to feel you’re facing it alone. But you’re not. Those people with faith, they already know it might be hard, but I can do this. I’ve got to pray myself through it. I’ve got to see myself through it. I’ve got to be consistent through it. Get, remember the growth mindset.
But that fixed mindset person, especially at no foundation of faith, do they have the capacity to do it? Yes. Will they ever tap into their ability to do it? Very likely not.
because anybody who knows me, I’m a research hall. I love research because I’m careful on what I research and the source of the research, but I love research. Research says that 80 % 85 % of people in any work capacity hate their jobs. They don’t like their jobs, but they remain because they feel this job is better than nothing.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (23:20.787)
And then about 15 years ago, research study came out. A couple of researchers did a nationwide study. And the topic was, where are people at the end of their lives? They talked to individuals who were on their deathbed. They talked to family members of individuals who had recently, and by recently they were talking two years, passed away. And they were asking, what was this person’s quality of life?
The findings was a simple statement. They didn’t put a number on it. It just said, most people die unhappy. That floored me. I read that study and the things that they were asking and some of the commentaries that people were saying, they did not have good, joy-filled lives. It was stress. It was drama. It was trauma.
It was a negative end to a life that should have been a well lived life. So what that told me is we are living so far beneath what God told us we could. We’re accepting things that we should not have to accept. We’re embodying pain and negativity when we should not. But once you get to that place, it’s hard to get out.
So if you’re in that place and you feel that things are hopeless
Then get some help. Talk to someone who can help you figure out why you are where you are. But you have to want to do it. I tell the leaders in my HR capacity, I’ve been in management for a while, so I talk to leaders and I ask them this one question. When they say, the team is doing this and the team is doing that and we’re having this kind of issue, I said, OK, so what are you doing? Because I’m hearing the team, the team, they, they. What are you doing?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (25:14.871)
Well, I’m trying to lead them. How? Well, I’m doing blah, OK, again, that’s what you’re doing for them. What are you doing to make sure you are not the problem? And they hate it when I ask that question. Because what does that say? I now have to be introspective. I’ve now got to look at me. Am I part of the problem? Or indeed, am I the problem?
So you have to want more in order to get more. So those people who are fixed minded, are negative, again, DBDs, Difficult By Design folk, you have to want more than you’re living. You have to want more than you’ve accepted. But that means if you’re in that place, you’re going to have to get some help.
Santiago Tacoronte (26:05.709)
for women in leadership there is often the pressure of doing it all. Unfortunately, family, kids, work, right?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (26:12.385)
Yes. Yes.
Santiago Tacoronte (26:17.91)
What’s your take on this superwoman syndrome and having to go through a storm almost daily or every few hours?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (26:28.629)
Superwoman’s gonna kill you. I’m gonna tell you right see we don’t have any what’s I don’t know what that thing is that Superman had that made him so Untouchable it doesn’t exist y’all Being superwoman will kill you Dr. Miles Monroe made a made a very strong statement shortly before he was killed. He said the richest place on earth
is the community cemetery. Because in that place are the dead dreams, hopes, and aspirations of some of the most powerful, innovative people who didn’t know they were powerful and innovative.
One thing about the superwoman syndrome is that she is birthed because we compare ourselves to other people. OK, this woman is doing this and this woman is doing that. And so I got to do it this way and I got to do it that way. But no, I got to do it like this. And she’s doing it like that. And my mama did it like that. And Auntie did it like that. Stop. Just stop.
How do you need to do it for your situation? Because while you’re looking at everybody else trying to pattern your life after them, you don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors. You don’t know what they’re doing, how they’re going. You don’t know their support system. When you see them doing all this stuff, more than likely, if they’re doing it successfully in a place of peace and joy, they’ve got a support system. Do you have one? So for that woman who thinks she’s got to be all to all, I was her.
her. Bernita, can you do yes? Ms Robinson, can you do yes? Dr. Bernita, can you do yes? Ms, Ms. Bernita, can you, I was yes. Evangelist, can you do yes? I did not know how to say no. And what I found when I stopped and really, I self-assess all the time. I think that that, that keeps me from freaking out, being overwhelmed.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (28:32.554)
or getting out of my place of authenticity. What I realized when I stopped because I was so tired, I was so exhausted all the time. And then I got mad with God because I was exhausted all the time. And what I realized is I was trying to be everything to everybody. I was trying to be a little God.
You cannot be everything to everybody. Please get that out of your mind, Superwoman, because that posture right there is going to lead you to an early grave. One, you’ve got to learn how to figure out who am I? Authentically, who am I? What is my identity? Not mama’s concept of who I am, not Auntie, not the girl down the street, not my boss. Who am I?
And when you figure that out and there’s a process you have to go through, be authentic in who you are. And then stand in that authenticity. Be bold in being who you are. Say no if the answer is no. No is not a four-letter word.
Yes, if you have been one of those yes people who said yes to everybody and to try to be superwoman to everybody When you start doing this you’re gonna take some people off tell you that right now. You’re gonna make some people real mad with you But so what? So what? Learn how to live this one life that you have and you only have one Learn how to live that life for you
God’s way not for people not imitating not emulating others but live authentically for you when you can do that then no it’s just you know i’m sorry i can’t do that you know i got something going on i might be able to help you later but i can’t do it let me see if i can help you help you find an alternative source of assistance if you just want to be helpful but say no if it’s no
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (30:29.335)
Do what you have been put here to do. Do what you feel is right for your path, your destiny, your future, yourself, your family. Not what everybody else think you should do. And sometimes you’re to have to clip clip people who just don’t get you. And that’s okay too.
Santiago Tacoronte (30:47.024)
Let’s think deeper a little bit on this. I really love what you said about saying no. think one of the biggest reasons for people burning out is their incapacity of saying no or not now because of guilt. So in times of busyness and when everything feels urgent, how do you recommend to prioritize and more important?
How can people not feel guilty for saying no to other people? Because, you know, the other people, it’s nice people and you want to be kind and you want to be useful and helpful to others. So guiltiness kind of creep on another and a lot of people who ask your recommendation to prioritize and do a way that you will not feel guilty and as much as possible, you will not make feel others bad.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (31:25.612)
You
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (31:32.499)
It does.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (31:46.796)
Let’s deal with the guilt part first. I have traveled that road more than once.
because I felt this is my dialogue to myself when I was a people pleaser. I’m a Christian, so God says I’m supposed to be there for my brothers and my sisters. I’ve been blessed with some skill sets, so if I’m supposed to be there, then I need to use the skill set to help where I can. I’m a Christian, I’m a woman of God, so I don’t need to tick people off. God says I’m not supposed to bring contention to a place, but we take
things out of context. These are dialogues. These are things that I had processed in my spirit and my mind, but I’d taken one verse, made that a definitive, and I’d taken out of the context of what God wanted me to do. So I had to reframe some things. And it starts with understanding your identity and being authentic. Everything goes back to your authenticity.
When you can get to that place, I’m who God made me to be. These are my gifts. These are my talents. These are the things that I have been put in this earth realm to do.
When you understand that, you realize you can’t do everything for everybody. Once you get in that place of understanding your identity, understanding your purpose in the Earth realm, you feel confident saying, you know, let me see if I can help you find somebody who can help you with that. If you really want to be helpful, help connect them to resources. You don’t always have to be the resource.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (33:28.449)
But I’m not going to be honest. Learning to say no is a process. It amazes me sometimes people say, just pray about it. just do this. Just say no. All of these things are processes. It’s not going to happen overnight.
But the more you do it, it’s just like when you start to exercise. When you start to exercise, your limbs are sore, your heart aches. I mean, it’s pounding after a few minutes on that treadmill of that bike. But as you build your capacity, as you build your strength, the legs muscles are not so sore anymore. The arms are not so sore anymore. Your heart is not beating after 10 minutes on that treadmill. Why? Because you’re strengthening those muscles.
your inner resolve, your determination, your subconscious mindset, all of those are non-physical muscles that you strengthen. The first time you say, I can’t do that, your heart is going to palpitate and you’re going to freak out. OK, they’re not going like me. they’re going to be mad at me. Yeah, they might.
But I promise you if you start not let me make sure that say this because a lot of things dr. Bresa said said say no, no, that’s not what i’m saying i’m saying Make a determination if what you’re saying yes to is where you should say yes That might begin with prayer. In fact, I think you should That might begin with asking yourself. Can I really do this? I have something in my coaching practice. I call the pie pie
You prioritize, you implement, and you execute. But in that pie, it’s got a whole, the spreadsheet has a calculation that has 168 hours a week. That’s all you got. You can’t add another minute to your 168 hours, another second. Your pie, your purview of completing tasks is 168 hours a week, 24 hours a day. That’s all you got.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (35:30.625)
You have to sleep, so that’s going to take six to eight hours. Hopefully you’re not trying to subsist on four. You have to work. So that’s 40 hours if you work full time.
So what other things everything else you you have to be a husband or a wife That’s going to take time. You have to be a mother that or father that takes time So once you take those things out, I called those zero zero change elements These are things that you can’t change you have to do this now. You’re looking at your discretionary hours every week So if you only got so many hours of discretionary time every week, how can you say yes to everything everybody asks you you can’t
Because you can’t add another hour to your day. It is what it is. So you’ve got to factor, you gotta be wise. Factor out what you can say yes to and what you can’t say yes to. And what you can’t say yes to, there’s only one alternative. No. The more you say no.
The more you will be comfortable because now you’re learning to walk in your authenticity You’re learning who you are and you can stand in your identity that saying no is not a four-letter word You are more confident saying I wish I could help you but I can’t help it if I had a resource I would definitely definitely give you resource but all I can say is you know, go on the internet, know talk to your pastor Give them some resources to start with but your answer just needs to be know that muscle will strengthen over time
and you will become more confident. I’m raising my hand y’all. I was people pleaser. Yes to everything. Now I say no and I can say it with confidence.
Santiago Tacoronte (37:10.358)
Let’s dispel a myth or two. What is that thing that people do?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (37:13.814)
Hahaha!
Santiago Tacoronte (37:19.884)
when they are super busy, when they’re under the fire that they think that makes them more productive but is a complete hoax. What is it?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (37:30.509)
Busyness is that that thing right there the concept of busyness is the one thing people think if I if I I make sure I get this done if I make sure I get this done if I make sure get that done I can get this done and let me do this I get you’re busy, but are you being productive?
That concept of business is to me. I find the number one. I just got to be busy I got to get that if I can stay there if I do this I do that Let me tell you what happens when that that happens you teach the body how to respond to everything Just like you teach people how to treat you Don’t get mad when they mistreat you because you gave them permission You teach the body the same thing you teach your body that when things happen it needs to freak out or stress out
Or needs to be calm. What happens when you have that mindset? I just got to be I just got to do this whenever you’re not doing something Then you get guilty within yourself because you’re not busy When you’re not doing something you can angle with yourself because you’re not busy
Because you feel you have taught yourself. I’ve got to be busy I’ve got to be doing something in order to be productive. But are you being productive just being busy? I guarantee you if you’re busy so much and it’s a place of There’s the energizer bunny energizer bunny gotta go you you might be moving
but you’re probably not productive and I guarantee you’re not moving in the right direction. I see this all the time as an HR professional, as a minister, and as a coach.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (39:02.637)
So that concept of being busy I got to move I got to do I got to do if I do this and and then they have the audacity to think if I organize my business I can be more productive. So from 9 to 11, I’m to do this from 11 to 12 I’m going to do this well lunchtime I can I can squeeze in this and then from 1 to 4 I can do this Where is the time for you to?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (39:28.257)
You’ve got all these things on your list to do. And you’re going from one thing to the other thing to the other thing. Again, science has proven your brain needs a break every two hours. You never have that time when you’ve been going, going, going all day. You skip lunch because you had something to do and you thought you can get it done. Then by 2 o’clock, you’re sitting at your desk or you’re sitting at whatever. you’re literally, you start to go.
your eyes start to close. You start to be little bit distracted in your mind. That’s because your mind, those brain cells, they need a break every two hours. That’s been proven. After two hours, your comprehension begins to go down.
Your alertness, that capacity to be alert begins to decrease and you don’t retain as much information as you did two hours earlier. That’s because you have pushing your brain to the max. Every couple of hours you need to take a 10, 15 minute break, walk outside, go get you a cup of water. If you like sodas and all that stuff, get you something to nibble on, just don’t be unhealthy about it. And take a break.
So as you put all this stuff in your 168 hours a week, you’ve got to build in time to take care of you. Self-care is absolutely critical if you want to be productive.
You cannot subsist on four hours of sleep a night. You just can’t. You might think you’re OK for a while, but by midday, you’re going to be so exhausted. And your body’s going to tell you, I’m tired. I need a break. And sometimes your body would just go to sleep and say, you, I’m going to take care of myself. And you begin to nod, or you begin to nod off, or you begin to disconnect. You’re in a meeting. You’re talking to somebody, and you can’t focus on what they’re saying. That’s because your brain and your body is saying, I’m done.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (41:28.789)
So that concept of business itself is one of the number one things I see that keep people from being productive because you think going back to the superwoman of Superman syndrome, you can’t do this. Focus. What is it that you need to do at this moment in time? Infuse, break so you can take care of you and be the best you for the next couple of hours for the next issue for the next problem.
Santiago Tacoronte (41:55.636)
Let’s give let’s try to give an advice to all the many people that listen to this podcast and that are feeling overwhelmed either because they’re busy at work or they’ve been laid off and they’re feeling overwhelmed what is the first thing you recommend people to do to reset
and go back to being there 100 % or the 90 % doesn’t have to be always 100 right or the 90 % and feel at ease and at peace with themselves where do they have to start?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (42:26.987)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (42:31.842)
Yes. Okay, excellent question. First of all, don’t start trying to fix the problem until you know what the problem is. Why are you feeling overwhelmed?
Why are you feeling that you’re going to drown in the midst of this crisis or this situation? What’s driving you to feel that you don’t have the capacity to process through in a place of peace with the potential of positive outcomes in a place of joy? So what I found a lot of people do, they again look at the problem. This problem is right here and you want to fight that problem. Let’s deal with this problem. And they never ask, why is this problem here in the first place?
Why did it manifest? Why is it in my life? Did I cause this? And a lot of times y’all the answer is going to be yes you did. Because a lot of times you not been able to say no.
Not knowing your identity, not standing your authenticity, not realizing what you are meant here to do, not asking the question, what should I do first? What should I not do? You’ve taken on too much. You’re trying to eat the whole, you know, that elephant in the room. You’re trying to consume that whole elephant rather than one bite at a time. Sometimes the problem is you. So before you try to tackle this problem in front of you, figure out why.
And most times this is going to be the case. Over and over again, you’re facing the same situation. I’m overwhelmed. And you look back, I seem to have a pattern of being overwhelmed.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (44:05.749)
I seem to have a pattern of always dealing with stuff that I don’t want to deal with. I seem to have a pattern of certain people being in my life and usually those, are different kind of people, we can’t go into that right now, but there are different kind of people, one of the kind of people that sometimes, especially being a people pleaser or a superwoman, superman, you can’t bring into your users. And users take, take, take, but they give nothing.
You have a pattern of having those kind of people in your life. Why? So before you tackle the problem, tackle why the problem exists. And again, it’s a process. But then take that one step at a time. The problem is there now. It’s not going go away. I tell people all the time, critical issues don’t evaporate. They escalate.
problems don’t go away. If you don’t deal with them, they will get worse. So you’re going to have to deal with that problem. But what are the immediate steps you can take to deal with it? Once you deal with why it’s there, can you now deal with making sure it doesn’t come again? So that means you got to deal with you.
What is it in you that causes this kind of situation to keep coming up? Deal with that. And why you deal with that? Because that’s a process. Which immediate step can you take to start dealing with this problem? How do you prioritize? You need to do step, step, step. Write it down.
right at playing upon the tables. So write down what this problem is and what is the immediate thing that you can do to start addressing the issue, the immediate issue. What’s going to be the most problematic thing to deal with first?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (45:46.914)
You deal with that. Now, what do we need to do next? You deal with that. And then the ultimate question is, how do I complete this problem so it does not come around again? And that’s one step people never take either. They’ll deal with the problem, but they haven’t dealt with why it exists. So now they don’t deal with making sure it doesn’t come around again. Or if it does, they’re prepared to deal with it.
Santiago Tacoronte (46:14.456)
Doctor, where can our audience know more about you and get to know you better and your work?
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (46:21.857)
Thank so much for that. can, the two primary, well I got three websites. You can visit www.drbrespeaks.com. business site is epitomexcel.com. And if you want to talk to me, please don’t feel free to call me at 470-572-5252.
I would love the opportunity to talk at any time about how to stand in your authenticity, how to understand your identity, and how to position yourself to make sure you’re doing what you’re supposed to do in the Earth realm to achieve your dreams, your goals, and your aspirations.
Santiago Tacoronte (47:12.556)
Dr. Bre, has been an enormous pleasure to have you with us today. You definitely have a wealth of wisdom, calmness, leadership and know-how. And I just want to say thank you again for being so inspiring for our entire audience.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (47:26.029)
God bless you for that.
Dr. Brenetia Adams-Robinson (47:31.959)
Well, thank you so much for having me. I am quite honored. And you have a wonderful rest of your day.
Santiago Tacoronte (47:37.986)
Thank you, doctor.
Santiago Tacoronte (00:01.502)
Hello Riley and welcome to Productivity.
Riley (00:04.344)
Thank you, Santiago. Happy to be here today.
Santiago Tacoronte (00:08.094)
So you’ve been called the CEO whisperer for helping high performance sleep better. What is the most shocking transformation you’ve witnessed in your clients after you optimize their sleep?
Riley (00:21.09)
Yeah, it’s a really good question. And there’s so many different case studies that come to mind. But you do see the same overlapping issues that a lot of CEOs have. And a lot of the time that is stress. And they like to keep their stress sort of under the radar. They don’t want to show it. And they bottle it all up until it becomes too much. And then they just can’t sleep anymore. And they go towards sleeping pills or alcohol and different things like this that they only know that’s available to them. But I had one individual in particular named Jordan. He’s probably 49 years old CEO, three kids, wife.
stay at home mom and he was not able to sleep at all. And this was, this guy was a hustler, very successful CEO. I think he had a couple of businesses and we were able to help him just sleep better, get his deep sleep in his REM sleep back on track and get between an hour and a half or about two hours of deep sleep and REM sleep, which is really that sweet spot we need to really restore the mind and restore the body. And then as a result, he didn’t need coffee the next day. Didn’t need sleeping pills to get to sleep.
You can do it naturally if you find the root cause of like, where is this coming from instead of just looking at symptoms.
Santiago Tacoronte (01:24.628)
This is incredible. you saying that someone goes from not sleeping at all to sleeping like a baby. How do you perform these magics?
Riley (01:35.374)
Yeah, sleep is something that’s universal across all types of industries, right? We all need it. Some people need a bit more, some people need a bit less. But really what it comes down to is it’s case by case via everyone’s biology. Some people need a bit more work, some people not as much. Sometimes people have diagnosable sleep conditions, sleep apnea, rest of the legs syndrome, insomnia, but other people just need a little bit. So where I find the best…
Way an approach to look at people is look at the root cause and what we do is we send lab tests To their house and they would take a urine saliva stool sample Send it to the lab and we’ll figure out what is their cortisol like what is inflammation their body like do they have leaky gut is their heavy metals moles toxins in their body What is our their brain neurotransmitters telling us do they have too much dopamine that’s turning to adrenaline and that’s Keeping them sort of up at night. Maybe they don’t have the GABA which are the breaks in the brain to kind of chill out
Is it serotonin, which is the happiness neurotransmitter to really help them feel that sense of ease while they’re falling asleep? You know, there’s these imbalances within our body. And if any one of those is out of balance, it’s a bit like the game Jenga if you’ve ever played. You’ll pull out one puzzle piece here, create stress on the other side. You’ll pull out a piece here until the whole thing comes tumbling down. And so it’s like our body’s the same way. When each part becomes in balance over time, the full thing can come tumbling down.
And that’s where like the communication between all the different parts of the body, they’re just not as efficient as it should. So if you think of your body as like a machine, a system, it’s much the same way. We want all the different parts of the brain to communicate with the gut, the hormones communicate with the different organs. And it’s like a beautiful orchestra in unison. But if one instrument’s playing too fast, too slow, then the full song is off. And so that’s a good analogy that I feel kind of encapsulates high level view what I do with people.
Santiago Tacoronte (03:23.1)
Lots of people think of sleep as a routine. Night comes and then you go to sleep. But you have quite a scientific approach to it. What has been your most surprising discovery? You have analyzed the sleep of more than 2,000 people and gathered a lot of data and markers around it. What was your most surprising discovery?
Riley (03:48.878)
Yeah, the biggest one for people that I see consistently, and this is hidden. I think it’s going to be more well known as time goes on because it always takes a while for the mainstream to catch up when there’s something cutting edge that’s out. It can take five to 10 years sometimes. And what I think that’s going to be is parasites inside of the gut. And the reason why is parasites are something people can, sure, get second, third world countries. But you can also get it from contaminated, like uncooked meats, fish, sushi. You know, you’re swimming your local lake. You might swallow some of the water.
And if somebody has a resilient immune system, which most of the immune system is located in the gut, we’d be able to fight these things off. But for a lot of people, these parasites can stay there. Pathogens, H. pylori, there’s a lot of different evil little critters in there. And they can stay in our gut for years at a time. And essentially what they do is they can steal the nutrients of the foods we’re eating. So we might be eating a healthy diet and you know, I’ll talk with people and they’re doing all the right things, all the healthy things, and they can’t sleep and they don’t know what’s going on.
And so we look at their gut, we run a test and we can see they have got parasites and that’s causing the parasites to steal the nutrients from the food. Now they don’t have the building blocks that they need for their hormones, for their brain, no transmitters and all the different functions in their body. And so once we remove it, all of a sudden the body is very self-correcting and self-healing when you give it the right inputs. And so once we remove those usually over about 30 to 60 days, then we will see drastic improvements in how they sleep because
Now cortisol is not going to be as high anymore. Sometimes these things will come more awake or active at nighttime. And so that’s one of the biggest ones that I would see. There’s other things too, like heavy metal and molds, but that’s like one of the biggest epiphanies that I’ve seen. And people think, well, what’s a parasite in my gut related to my brain? And there’s a lot related to your gut in your brain. And that’s why they call your gut the second brain, because they have a two, two way lateral connection to the vagus nerve.
Santiago Tacoronte (05:43.208)
So is it easy to get parasites in your gut, in your intestine, and continue having a normal life without noticing or not having clear symptoms?
Riley (05:54.518)
Yeah, and that’s another good question too, because everybody genetically and based on their environment has a different size stress bucket. And there’s in our stress bucket, it’s called our allostatic load, we can put an internal stressors and external stressors. External, know those ones stress with work, drama and relationship, we can manage that through meditation or something. But the ones that are hidden are the internal ones. And one of those can include a parasite. Now, depending on
how many stressors you put into somebody’s bucket, depending on how big it is, some have a big stress bucket and a parasite might not even bother them at all. Other people are extremely sensitive to this. And so that’s where there is no cookie cutter, one size fits all approach. It has to be individually tailored to the person.
Santiago Tacoronte (06:40.52)
Let’s speak sleep hacks. The internet is full of sleep hacks. You open TikTok, Instagram, know, from breathing 10 times consecutively, very deeply, almost until you’re out of breath. Does these things work?
Riley (06:54.732)
Hahaha
Riley (06:58.478)
It’s a good question too. They all work and there’s different layers to this game. So you always wanna do the basics and the fundamentals first. You can go advanced with all the events biohacks, but unless you get the foundations in place first, the advanced stuff is pretty useless. starting with the basics, I’ll give you probably, you know, between five and 10. So number one is cool bedroom environment temperature. That’s between about 16, 18 Celsius, 65, 67 Fahrenheit.
And that’s number one, because within a 24 hour period, our body’s the coldest internally within about a couple hours after a sleep. So we want an external environment that’s conducive to that. Number two is we want it to be pitch black. Now ideally we would want it to be so pitch black that we don’t see our hand in front of us. It’s a good measuring stick and that’s idealistic, but to be realistic, we just want it to be as dark as possible. So that means blackout curtains.
Even in the morning when sun’s coming through, we just wanna make sure that like the curtain, the window, they’re pinched as much as possible. You can wear an eye mask, but we still have these light receptors around our eyes that can detect light at a subtle level. And even electronics within our room, like heaters, fans, cable boxes, we wanna turn those off or cover those with tape or whatever it is, because those can also impact our sleep as well. And it doesn’t seem like it, it seems like it’s so small and nuanced, but it does have an impact on our sleep.
Speaking of light, the second thing is going to be blue light. So blue light can directly inhibit our melatonin, which is our master sleep hormone. And within a 24 hour period, melatonin is highest right before we go to sleep, couple hours into sleep, and lowest when we first wake up in the morning. And it has an inverse relationship with cortisol. So when we go to bed, we want cortisol to be lowest and melatonin to be highest. But a lot of people, they don’t have melatonin as high as it should be because they’re looking at blue light before they go to sleep.
So maybe they’re looking at their phone, they’re watching TV before bed, and a couple things you can do is get blue light blocking glasses. Now there’s a lot on the market, but my favorite ones are called the TrueDark Twilight Classics, and they’re gonna make you look like Cyclops. They’re red, but again, I mean, we’re looking for results here, and it’s great, because it’ll block side from the periphery, and there’s other forms of light besides blue light. There’s green light, violet light, that can be stimulatory, but blue is on the top.
Riley (09:24.302)
for suppressing that melatonin. And there’s a lot of, like you can just Google blue light, potential risk of disease, not sleeping well. I think we’re gonna see more about the science with that too. So that’s that one. Now another one that a lot of people don’t realize is people think it’s all about the evening routine, but it’s also about the morning routine. So what that means is when we first wake up, we wanna expose our eyes to sunlight as soon, within about an hour when we wake up. The reason why is because light goes into our eyes and it.
comes to something known as our SCN and sort of our internal master clock, that is going to send a signal to all of our organs, all of our hormones, that it’s time to turn on, to hit that on switch. And that’s when that timer begins where, you know, 12, 16 hours later, our body knows when it’s time to go to bed. And you know, our bodies, our brains are really these outdated monkey machines. you know, our technology has increased, but our bodies haven’t changed too much since the, you know, during the age of our ancestors when we were hunting.
you know, hunter-gatherer society. And so we, it’s called the Savannah principle where there is this mismatch. So what we have to do is when we first wake up, expose your eyes to the sun. On a sunny day, you want between about 10 and 15 minutes is enough. Don’t look directly at the sun, but just try and get the light in the eyes. On a cloudy day, you want about 30 minutes. If you’re in a part where I’m like Canada, where we don’t get a lot of light at this time of the year in the morning, you can get something called a lux light. Usually you want to look between about
you know, 10 to 12,000, 50,000 lux, you just put it like on the 45 degree angle in the morning when you’re, you know, first working or something, put it on for 30 minutes. And that’s a great way until the sun goes up and then you can go for a walk earlier that morning too. So those are a couple of things that people can utilize. And there’s more too, but let me know if you want to keep me to keep riffing here, but those are some helpful ones.
Santiago Tacoronte (11:12.244)
Let’s switch to another important part of productivity. You work with people that is busy and successful.
Productivity, it’s addictive in a way, and success is also addictive. How do you convince people, clients that are super busy, that are successful, that are sleeping not so much because they have a lot to do? How do you tell them, time out, leave a few things because you need to get your sleep?
Riley (11:48.834)
Yeah, because what got them to the place they are is hustling, right? Burning the candle both ends, sacrificing sleep. A lot of these guys see sleep as a liability and something that’s kind of getting in their way. And if they had their way, they wouldn’t sleep at all. some of these guys are genetic. There’s about 1 to 2 % of the population that need less than about four or five hours of sleep. And if that’s them, then great. But if you’re sacrificing your sleep, can develop a risk.
health conditions down the road like Alzheimer’s disease with plaque building up in the brain, the list goes on. But functionally what I have to show them is yes, you know, the less you sleep, of course, the more you can get done. But look how much that’s impacting you during the day when you could be focusing better. You could be in, you know, deep flow states. You could have unlimited energy. You could have very good emotional intelligence so you could be a better leader. And if you know the game for them is all about efficiency. And so yes, it might take
more time to sleep, adding a couple hours, but the efficiency in your day of the hour spending your waking hours, that is going to be significantly more across all KPIs throughout your business and your personal life. And then I also want to tell them to like, sometimes you don’t have to sleep eight to nine hours, we can increase the sleep quality of your deep sleep, of your REM sleep and other markers to your heart rate variability, resting heart rate, the list goes on. And from there, we’re able to sometimes sleep less.
and actually feel better because we’ll track their sleep with an aura ring. I’ll be able to look at their stats day and night, what it’s showing me. And there’s so much room for improvement that when we make those improvements, sometimes they can slice hours off their sleep and they just feel better too, because their body is less inflamed. It’s just more healthy. And then they just feel better too. So when I put it in that lens, then they start to see and then they start to visually feel it. And then they never want to go back to what they were before because they just see how much better they feel.
Santiago Tacoronte (13:45.908)
Let’s talk a little bit about bad sleep. I read this week or last week something like, no matter how bad you’re feeling today, you’re only one sleep away to be the best version of yourself. But let’s say for the sake of the example that you had a bad night for whatever reason. You had dreams, you had nightmares. How can people recover and go back to being a normal being?
after a bad sleep.
Riley (14:18.03)
Yeah, that’s a good question too. One of the things that you can do is you can try a nap in the afternoon, but you don’t want to have a nap after 3 p.m. and you want to make your nap about 26 minutes exactly because if you start going over the 30 minute mark, you can start going to deeper phases of sleep and you’re going to wake up ending up feeling groggy. But if you didn’t get a good sleep, having a nap, you know, between 11, maybe 2 p.m. that’s a great way to do a recharge. Some countries do that and you know, the employers.
show great results like they have sleeping pods in different working organizations. I believe I think the last one I saw was in Japan, but it’s coming more popular in different parts of the world. So that’s one thing that you can do. Of course you can drink coffee and you can do these short-term things, but think of it like a bank account. If you’re taking withdrawals out of your bank account by having caffeine, that is going to put you in a deficit. We want to be in a surplus all day. And so you first have to go to the baseline of
If you were so much in a surplus, like if your bank account was let’s say plus a thousand, maybe you didn’t have a good sleep. Now you’re down to let’s say 700, but you’re still in a surplus. So you’re still feeling fine and sleep’s not going to impact you as much. It’s just that people are always hovering around maybe just plus 100 surplus. So when they get a bad sleep, now they’re in a minus 1000 deficit and they feel horrible. And so now they go to coffee, they go to alcohol, they go to sleeping pills just to try and feel better. So the first thing is make your body so resilient that
Even a bad sleep won’t interrupt you too much. But of course we all have busy schedules. So you can try coffee, you can try slight melatonin. But the best thing is to sometimes take the hit for that day and then plan on just going to bed at the same time and getting a good sleep that night. Because the moment that you try mixing around the schedules, sleeping for three hours, having too much coffee that day, what you’re gonna find is going to impact the next couple days afterwards.
the net result of that is sometimes a worse impact. But besides that, you can do a cold shower, you can do an Epsom salt bath, you can do like a minor exercise to get your heart rate going, you can expose your eyes to the sun. But some days if we have those, when those days do happen, we just have to take it a little bit more easy. And that’s where awareness comes in of like, we have all these tools available to us, but what ones do we take out at the right time based on how we feel?
Santiago Tacoronte (16:38.386)
Riley, I’m a data geek. It’s my profession and I love it. Let’s speak a little bit tech. Smart devices such as the rings, auto rings, FitBit, smart watches that measures your sleep. Number one, are they reliable?
Riley (16:40.942)
Thank
Riley (17:00.056)
They’re probably about 30 % off for the most part. So I don’t like to see them individual days. Like I wouldn’t take that data too, too seriously, but I do like to see the trends. And so if we can get 14 days, 30 days, I probably want at least 30 days of data to get a good baseline for somebody. But if I can see like three months of data, six months of data, and we can correlate that to how they’re subjectively feeling, then they can rate themselves. We see the data on that and we.
do different, you know, we’ll change the diet. How do their biometrics respond to that? If they’re exercising, how do their biometrics respond to that? And so we can tinker with that by changing one variable at a time. But the best sleep device on in the market today, it’s an expensive one. It’s called the eight sleep. And that’s a pad that goes over your bed that dynamically adjusts the temperature. You can think of like your, your mattress pad while you sleep. And that is so good for your sleep.
and it’s probably the most accurate for tracking your sleep. Number two is probably gonna be the Aura Ring. Now the version four just came out, so that is probably the best on the market today. The one below that, might be Whoop Band, it could be the Apple Watch. All the other ones sort of tie together, but you know, technology has reached a point where they are all pretty good for the most part, if we’re tracking the trends, but the 8 Sleep and the Aura Ring are still on top.
Santiago Tacoronte (18:24.752)
Have you heard about the technology applied to clothing, to apparel, to sleeping? Have you heard about brands like Daxmeyan that keep your body cool and the temperature at the same level while you sleep? What do you think about those?
Riley (18:42.87)
Yeah, I think they’re great. There’s a lot of technology coming out right now, whether it’s clothing or electronic gadgets. I’m a big fan of those things and I’m trying these different things. I mean, I’m a bit of a guinea pig myself. know, everything from like biohacker type clients to, know, EMFs. So they’ll paint their walls with a special paint that’s black. you know, the frequency won’t come in or EMF blocking close. Similar to what you’re saying.
I think it all is valid. Is it that one thing? No. But does it add, you know, it might be 5 % to their solution. And then it’s a combination of everything combined that you really get the most amount of results.
Santiago Tacoronte (19:24.308)
Let’s talk about, you’ve mentioned it a couple of times already, a few times. Let’s talk about the most consumed drug in the world, caffeine.
it doesn’t make people more productive and what are you trading off when you are exchanging caffeine for a big of let’s say energy against your sleep?
Riley (19:50.894)
Yeah, so caffeine and again everybody’s different. So some people genetically Are a fast metabolizer of coffee and we all know those people who can go for a cup of coffee in the evening They feel fine and they can sleep. Okay That’s one group of people. The other group of people is they’re slow metabolizers of coffee They can even have one cup of coffee at 10 a.m. And still feel wired at you 11 p.m. So they have to be careful Most people in the middle, know, what I suggest is if you’re going to bed at about 10 p.m
Your last cup should probably be at about 10.30 to 11 a.m. Just to be safe. They do say, you know, wait seven, eight hours, but I’ve just seen a half-life a lot more than that of coffee, that it can last for people. Now what coffee is doing for you is, and again, everybody responds differently, but you are increasing cortisol and you’re increasing adrenaline. Now there are studies that show the benefits of coffee. You know, it’s antioxidant property and everything else.
And there’s pros and cons to everything. You just have to weigh what is best for you and what are you looking for. But what we see is when we run a hormonal test, it’s usually a urine-based test where we can see somebody’s cortisol throughout the day. And when we first wake up within 90 minutes, our cortisol is at its highest. Throughout the day, our cortisol goes down to its lowest throughout the day before we go to sleep. And when somebody has coffee, and especially their adrenal glands, which secrete cortisol,
What we can see is that can be very detrimental for somebody who is in a state of adrenal fatigue or adrenal dysfunction. And so if their cortisol just baseline without coffee is too high, they’re running on a dirty source of energy and it’s very short lasting. And so the coffee is going to add to that where it’s going to spike up and it’s going to come down like a roller coaster. And what you’re doing when that happens is you’re now tapping into the backup generators and the backup resources of the body.
when it shouldn’t be there, you should be able to go, for example, plus one, minus one, just maintain that same level of consistency throughout the day. But now let’s say you have coffee and it spiked your cortisol up to plus 10, well, that’s gonna come crashing down. Again, there’s a couple things you can do with coffee, like having it with fat, MCT oil, things like that to make it more of a slow release. But for the most part, if somebody feels like they’re burnt out and they’re in stage two, three, four adrenal fatigue,
Riley (22:16.022)
you need to probably go off it for a period of about 30 to 60 days. And it’s tough. I mean, don’t get me wrong. You can get headaches, can get withdrawal symptoms. Coffee smells great in the morning. It’s a great ritual to have. But if you can get over that initial hump, you’ll see how much better you feel. And it’s like putting training wheels on a bike. You got to put the training wheels on the bike, learn how to ride the bike, give your system a break so it can build itself up again. And then once it feels healed and ready, you can take the training wheels off, go into maintenance mode.
and then just have it whenever you feel like it. But depending on how you feel, like a lot of these CEOs are so burnt out and they relied on coffee their entire lives to get to where they are, but their body just biologically can’t support that because sometimes their adrenals just don’t have the cortisol to to output anymore. And as a result, we got to give their body a break.
Santiago Tacoronte (23:09.276)
If you would need to change just one habit tonight about the hundreds of thousands of people that are going to listen to this podcast, one thing, what will it be?
Riley (23:25.678)
If they were to change one thing, I would say the earlier you can go to bed and it’s very cliche, but it’s very true. The earlier you can go to bed and the more that you can have a one hour ritual prior to sleep to make it like a sacred ritual before sleep and see it as an investment. Like sleep is an investment that is going to pay you dividends the next day and keeping your bank account in this big surplus so that
it’s only going to pay you back and you’re gonna be able to achieve what you want to. Just perceive less effort, easy, in a way that’s fun. We all are better people when, you we’re our best selves when we sleep better. And I think Matthew Walker said a quote, you know a lot more about somebody, not asking how’s it going, but ask how do they sleep? You’ll learn a lot more.
Santiago Tacoronte (24:20.18)
How do you reconcile this with social life? See, I’m an early sleeper and I’m totally with you. But it costs me sometimes tough conversations with people when I tell them that if I want to have an amazing day tomorrow, I might go to sleep at 9 p.m. And a common answer is like, you’re wasting your life. How can you sacrifice so much of your, particularly people that is busy or people that works the whole day?
It’s a bit of a struggle to say that you finish, you’re off work and dinner and whatever at what, seven, 7.30. And you have literally one hour, one hour and a half or two of me time before going to bed.
Riley (25:06.734)
Yeah, so we all need a social life, right? We all need to, we can’t be too strict every single day. And for the most part, like what I say to people is we need an outlet to let go. We need a social life. Sometimes people wanna have a glass of wine. That’s fine. I don’t wanna stop people from doing that. And maybe that’s good on a Saturday night, but maybe one extent, like instead of going to bed at 9 p.m.
Maybe it’s 11 p.m. like you can still do that with a social life or maybe it’s midnight if you’re really stretching it. But ideally it would be every single day you’re going to wake up at the same time and going to bed at the same time every day. But if you find that you are wanting that social life and it’s getting in the way of your sleep, then there are things you can do that when you wake up you can recover faster. So for example, like a cold shower.
or you can do like an Epsom salt bath or you can go to like the hot cold types of therapy. There’s biohacking devices if you’re somebody that wants to do that. But what you have to understand is bio the biohacking devices are good to supplement, you know, all the good healthy stuff you’re doing. But if again, if your bank account is in a surplus, you can sometimes get away with the social life of staying up later.
If you feel completely wiped the next day because you stayed up later than you should have, then that might be a sign that you should focus on other parts of your health to bring that up so you can get away with it once in a while. But if you feel like you can manage it and you’re going to wake up the same time, going to bed at the same time every day, then sometimes that can work out too.
Santiago Tacoronte (26:54.686)
What is one myth about sleeping that you wish it will disappear? Something that you say, gosh, this is not true.
Riley (27:06.67)
I’ve heard a lot of them. would say, you know, sleep is for the weak. I’ll sleep when I’m dead. you know, why would I sleep when I could get a bunch of stuff done? It’s a lot of it’s it’s at least for these high performer types, they, they want to remain really productive. So they again, see sleep as that liability. And so that’s the biggest myth, but I can change their minds pretty quickly when I’m visually make them feel better. It’s just people don’t know.
what they don’t know, right? You sometimes have to experience a new reality and then you’ll look back and see how far you’ve come.
Santiago Tacoronte (27:42.996)
Have you ever struggled with sleeping yourself?
Riley (27:45.494)
I did, yeah. Probably eight to 10 years ago, I was struggling with an autoimmune disease and sleep was a massive one. When I improved my sleep, a lot of those symptoms started to improve for me. But it was definitely something genetically that I didn’t have a good time with. And the healing process for me with all that was addressing all these parts of my body with lab testing. I did all the top 10 tips, dark bedroom environment, temperature.
making sure it’s cold, but it never worked for me. And so I went deeper and I went to the advanced things and I went to the lab testing, seeing there was molds in my body, I had parasites. The list went on, like there was a massive list of everything. And so once I removed those hidden stressors from our stress bucket, now my body had more bandwidth, just like a computer that’s full of viruses. Once you remove the viruses, you have more RAM, you have more bandwidth available on your computer. Now it runs a lot faster and more efficiently and my body was the same way.
Santiago Tacoronte (28:44.276)
Let’s try to predict the future, Reilly. Where do you think this science, I’ll call it science, the field of sleep optimization will be heading in the next five years?
Riley (28:56.45)
I think we’re going to be getting a lot into personalized medicine in combination with AI. You’re going to see AI, like for example, people’s biometrics from their Oro ring or whatever device they have using that in correlation with AI based on, know, what they like, what time they’re going to bed, what do they do for exercise? And I think they’re going to integrate people’s habits and daily schedule into some modality with that, I think.
and utilizing AI of giving people prompts at different times of the day when they should wake up, what time should they go to bed? But I think they’re also going to be able to measure more biomarkers like somebody’s blood sugar, somebody’s inflammation in the body. And to be able in the future, you take one prick sample and they can detect a form of disease coming up in the same way with sleep. I think there’s going to be a lot of interesting revolutions around their coming with sleep. And maybe it’s going to be integrated into somebody’s house with, you know,
virtual screens around people’s houses, giving them reminders of what they should and shouldn’t do.
Santiago Tacoronte (30:00.796)
sounds really cool. Let’s do a quick round of a shoot out of quick questions.
Riley (30:07.662)
sure.
Santiago Tacoronte (30:10.568)
or advice based on your experience. What do you do with nightmares bars? You wake up in the middle of the night, terrible nightmare. What do you do next?
Riley (30:19.116)
And yeah, you wake up with nightmares, you can’t get back to sleep. The best thing that you can do is listen to something called binaural beats. And cause when you wake up from nightmares, your heart’s probably racing. Your brain is in a really like gamma brainwave state. So you want to slow those brainwaves down. So there’s an app on your phone you can download. It’s called brain.fm and you wear headphones that will put your brain into, and there’s a sleep mode on there and that will put your brain into a more sleepy.
state. And so that’s a quick hack to kind of get back into those sleepy states if you find you’re awake.
Santiago Tacoronte (30:52.296)
Water. Water, it’s basically fundamental and everything works much better in our bodies when we drink water. But if you drink water before going to bed, it’s likely that you will wake up in the middle of the night because you need to do pee-pee. What do you do? Water or no water before sleeping?
Riley (31:11.406)
Right before sleep, I went through water. probably saved my last cup like three to four hours prior to bed. But what can be beneficial if you find you’re waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, having salt, like good salt, like Celtic salt, pink Himalayan salt, this can help retain your fluids. It’s known as a hormone called aldosterone. And it can help so you don’t wake up as much to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Because if you’re low on electrolytes and minerals and you’re waking up a lot,
that could be a sign that maybe you want some salt. So maybe you had like half a cup of warm water, put in some salt in there, maybe an hour or two before bedtime. That can be beneficial.
Santiago Tacoronte (31:47.89)
interesting. Jet lag. Stay awake, sleep a little bit, don’t sleep at all. How do you fight this?
Riley (31:56.288)
Yeah, good question. So you a couple days prior to leaving for your destination time zone You’re in your current time zone You want to start adapting to that destination time zone a couple days if you can and then when you arrive in your destination time zone You want to expose your eyes to sunlight like as soon as you wake up putting on those bullet blocking glasses In your destination time zone and just adapting to that as fast as possible But also doing things like grounding like walking in like swimming in a body of water
walking with your bare feet in sand, dirt, grass can also help. And then you can also utilize melatonin in your destination time zone. And even prior, you can imagine if you’re in your current time zone, start using melatonin as if you were going to sleep in the destination time zone. And that can also help as well. So whether you go to bed earlier, you go to bed later, that can also help.
Santiago Tacoronte (32:50.558)
The red zone for sleeping in hours. You… Yeah.
Riley (32:54.306)
between seven and nine hours is usually the sweet spot. Everybody’s different based on their chronotype. Sometimes people are a morning person like yourself. They like to go to bed at nine or 10 p.m. And then you have the night owls. And usually the night owls are about one, two, three hours later for bedtime than the morning larks.
Santiago Tacoronte (33:16.756)
For those struggling, Riley, to sleep, it’s a serious thing. If you don’t sleep well, or if you don’t sleep at all, I have seen people that is really miserable and that are really sick of not sleeping. How they can start with your platform, with you, how they can start with a consultant like you, how can they improve their sleep?
Riley (33:44.376)
Yeah, great question. mean, for what I have is a bunch of free resources available if people want to go to the sleepconsultant.com. On the of there, there’s top 10 sleep tips, things you can do. There’s questionnaires to figure out why you might not be sleeping and what exactly you can do about it. But the most important thing is to start with the basics first. Sleep is one of the biggest and easiest things to fix compared to doing a full new nutrition plan compared to going to the gym, lifting heavy weights.
A lot of that stuff can be uncomfortable, but with your sleep, you just need to change certain things once and the ROI you can see on the next days, weeks, months ahead can be massive, but always start with the lowest hanging fruit, simple things first, and then you can get advanced.
Santiago Tacoronte (34:26.772)
Riley, thank you so much for your time today. I’ve learned a lot. We have all learned a lot about sleeping. And you have just said about your website. anyone that wants to learn, which the first step probably, and to understand how they sleep and why they sleep. Any read that you recommend, any book?
Riley (34:47.956)
A book for sleep?
Santiago Tacoronte (34:50.404)
book to understand better sleep and and yeah.
Riley (34:56.066)
Yeah, the best one is by Matthew Walker and it’s called Why We Sleep. That’s one that I highly recommend. And he was also Matthew Walker, you can just YouTube him. He was on Joe Rogan and other podcasts too, but he brings a childlike wonder to sleep that will make you lot more interested in sleep too. So that’s one I highly recommend for any beginner.
Santiago Tacoronte (35:16.98)
Thank you so much, Riley. This was super interesting. It’s 7 p.m. where I am now and I’m excited to go to sleep. Thanks so much and hope to see you soon in the podcast.
Riley (35:29.954)
Thank you, Santiago. Talk soon.